We will rise again …. Evolution of the Necrons Matt Kirk Blog 4: “Come get me …”

7 Jan

 

In the blog this week I wanted to talk about the way my list seems to be working at the moment when playing assault based armies, and why it seems to be doing pretty well against them. I also wanted to wade in to a rules debate we’ve been having on some of the groups I am a member of on Facebook. Firstly though, as an aside, I have changed the list a little since the other week by replacing O’Brian with a Destroyer Lord, just to beef up the Wraith unit a bit. Seems to be working ok as well.

Historically when playing Necrons I have always been used to spending the game hiding from assaults, peppering opponents with mass low strength fire and generally just outsurviving the hell out of everyone. With my current army list I am certainly finding things a little different … that isn’t to say that Necrons in general are not designed to do the very thing I have just described but the way my list is written there is a pretty assaulty twist. If you consider three of the main infantry units in my force…. lets consider what happens to each of these unit when they get assaulted.

Canoptek Spyders:

Now the way I run my Spyders I can wound allocate between all three which makes this unit pretty survivable. Against low strength power weapon assault squads such as howling banshees they do pretty well since the fact that the banshees need 6s to wound my T6 beast, combined with wound allocation means they need to do 7wounds before they kill a model. Working backwards this means on average they need to have hit 42 times or had 63 attacks on the charge to kill on Spyder. The Spyder return attacks need 4s to hit, need 2s to wound and kill 3 or 4. Against things like assault marines It is even better since you also get a 3+ save against their normal attacks. Even power fists are ok since you can’t double the Spyders out. 3 wound models you can allocate between can soak up a lot of hurt from most units really. Essentially, if you assault this unit you may hurt it a bit but you won’t kill it and you are going to take some high strength monstrous creature attacks in return.

Wraiths with Destroyer Lord:

Ok let’s take this unit as our second example. Over the last few weeks it has been charged quite a few times so I’ll use those as examples. 5 Power fist death company …. had to go last and got killed with power weapon and rending attacks before they got to strike. 10 Assault marines … had to attack last mostly due to whip coils, the sarge’s power weapon did a wound to the Lord then the attacks back between the wraiths and the lord killed 5 marines. The marines took a wound off of a wraith, then lost another wound themselves when failing a fearless save  before being wiped out in the following turn. Mephiston will do some damage to this unit and will take the Lord out if he manages to stay away from the whip coils but lets see what will happen to him. Destroyer lord hits twice, causes two wounds. Wraiths get 10 attacks, hit with 5, wound with 2, rend with one and cause 1 wound. Mephiston probably kills the Lord and then it is pretty much a fair fight between him and the wraiths next turn depending on whether the wraiths can wipe him out before he gets to attack again. TH SS terminators will kill lose a couple of guys, kill a wraith or take a wound from the Lord and probably die on the second round of combat, although they may win depending on how well the wraiths did with their saving throws. Essentially, if you assault this unit you may hurt it a bit but you won’t kill it easily and you are going to take some high strength monstrous creature attacks with preferred enemy as well as S6 rending attacks in return. Also you will be going last.

Royal Court with Imotekh:

It doesn’t matter what you attack this unit with … as long as I intermingle my mindshackle Lords you are going to be attacking yourself with a couple of your models. Any guys you have left attacking me I will allocate as many as possible to crypteks I don’t care about in the combat (who will be coming back on  4+ at the end of the combat anyway) and hit you with 3 warscythes as well as my Stormlord – who may not have a power weapon but with rerolls to hit and wound he can usually add a bit of hurt. Often just the thought of the mindshackles seems to be making people not want to assault this unit and if they do they are often driven back – usually swearing at me about the MS scarabs and how unfair they are.

Ok so those are the three main assault units in the army … these guys are not going to be tempting targets for people to assault so lets looks at the other options. Scarabs are a real favourite to target but if I’ve been doing my job right and farming them you aren’t going to take them out easily in one turn at least but even if you do the counter assault is going to hurt. To be honest though the scarabs have been the hardest part of my army to manage … these little buggers can really do some hurt but they must be in assault with the right unit or they are just fodder. It also has such a big footprint it gets more difficult each turn to keep away from danger. More about them next week.

The other possible targets include vehicles which will have moved 7+” or the monolith which is armour 14. What an assaulting army really wants to kill of course are my warriors but they are either still in reserve, hiding behind things or bubble-wrapped. At the moment the power of this army seems to be the fact that people don’t want to get near it with too much mech because of the scarabs and then don’t want to assault units when they get there. There are just too many assault combinations that spell trouble.

This difficulty in finding targets for assault troops can make it a really tricksy army to fight and I think is at the heart about why it is doing so well at the moment, having not lost a single game although I have yet to take it to any tournaments of course. I am not saying that there are NO units that would be good at assaulting it as I think hordes of orks would do pretty well against the wraiths or that the dreaded death cult assassins would probably do well against anything. All I am saying is that an assaulting army facing it has some difficult decisions to make.

Jaws of the Wolf

I have to mention this rules debate we have been having as it seems to have taken up a lot of my hobbying time recently. I am still not sure as to the answer as I have been told lots of different things by people who are SURE one way or the other. The essence is this: When a wolf player uses jaws on a necron with reannimation protocols (initiative test or be removed from play) do they get to come back on a 5+ at the end of the phase? Some people are saying that because the Necron rule says “removes as a casualty” and jaws “removes from play” then the model is not eligible to return. Others are quoting the recent SOB FAQ which discusses how the rule for Saint Celestine works, explaining that she always comes back having been removed from play, saying that this might imply the same will be true of protocols. I only mention it here I as I wondered how other people were playing it and I wanted to say that I for one will be playing it as if they can’t use their protocols for the moment as erring on the side of caution seems like good practice. Enquiring with GW store staff I have had equally strong opinions on both sides and the Facebook thread on the Necron group I am a member of is 50 comments long so far. Feel free to wade in with opinions or how you are playing it.

That is all for this blog. I am hoping that everyone who takes the time to read this is having or has had a great Christmas season filled with festivities and seasonal cheer as well as gaming, modelling and painting.

Don’t forget that a scarab is for life not just for Christmas!

We’ll be back….

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19 Responses to “We will rise again …. Evolution of the Necrons Matt Kirk Blog 4: “Come get me …””

  1. Gaz1858 January 7, 2012 at 09:38 #

    As for the rules query my interpratation is that as protocols does not give a reason why removed from play should be ignored then it is not. As you say protocols only deals with destroyed, being removed from play is a different thing entirely.

    As for your unit analysis congrats on seeing necrons as having an assault potential. Though each unit youve described has its merits it relies entirely on the rest of the army to see which is best. More so than any other army synergy is key. I like the canoptek spyders personally as 3 is a single HS choice and still alows 2 other HS if required.

  2. 40KUK January 7, 2012 at 19:04 #

    We have been using the rule that the Necron can’t get up again if hit by Jaws.

    • The Voice January 9, 2012 at 12:28 #

      No we havent . lol

      There is no distinction between “removed from play” and “removed casualty” in the rule book. Reanimation protocols mean you get back from anything.

  3. 40KUK January 10, 2012 at 03:44 #

    Oh! I fear an FAQ is needed. Playing my wolves against all but Mr Percival I have been, but realise now I’ve only played Guard against The Voice. Weird thing is the 2 other Necron guys didn’t even question it as a contention at the time.

    As I always say though, if in the FAQ they rule Necrons can get up it isn’t the dirtiest thing I have ever seen in 40K.

    • Matt Kirk January 10, 2012 at 08:02 #

      Is that because you are playing Space Wolves this year perchance Dave? What Gary said certainly sums up the crux of the argument although many have drawn the exact opposite conclusion from the same set of statements. If Necrons don’t get their RP though ,… in my opinion THAT is the dirtiest thing I have ever seen in 40k. 😉 Either way it’s still bye bye time for wraiths and it ain’t looking too pretty for Spiders and scarabs either. What runepreists in drop-pods could do to a misplaced unit or two is terrifying. Bloody Space Wolves….

      • The Voice January 10, 2012 at 10:25 #

        Appart from that wraith are immune to jaws being jumo infantry.

        ….bwahahahahahahahaha

        -perci

      • Matt Kirk January 10, 2012 at 11:29 #

        (made this comment thinking that Dave had said it IS the dirtiest thing he has seen in 40k … Dumbass!)

  4. The Voice January 10, 2012 at 10:27 #

    my word i cant spell this morining.
    :S

    “apart from that wraiths are immune to jaws by way of being jump infantry”

    second times a charm.

    Also having re read the rule book – there is nothing that means “removed from play” is any different. So i shall be putting this in the gt faq once its gone through the commitie.

    • Matt Kirk January 10, 2012 at 11:25 #

      Perci you are a legend … I completely forgot that. 🙂 Spiders only go on a 4+ as well because they are MCs and I always give mine a gloom prism just in case. So to recap then: Wraiths are jump infanty, Spiders have psychic defence and everything else will probably get RP? That’s gonna help me sleep later. I don’t have the rule handy but where does it stand on beasts such as …. to pluck an example out of the air at random … lets say scarabs? Surely it’s not a fair codex unless every single Necron unit has some immunity to JotWW. Lol.

      Jesting aside I take your point about there being nothing in the rule book differentiating “removes from play” and “removes as a casualty” but the contrary argument could be that there is nothing to say “removes as a casualty” is the same as “removes from play.” Some people may argue that this means there is nothing in JotWW that says the model is a casualty so the RP rules wouldn’t come into effect. It’s still a tough one for me although I sort of know what I’ll be praying for when the FAQ comes out. 

  5. The Voice January 10, 2012 at 15:06 #

    I think if the rule book had a definition of “removed from play” then it would be simple. But the only thing ever mentioned is “casualtys” in the brb. So you have only one set of model removal rules in the whole book to go buy. Techincally even a bolter removes a necron from play. Its no longer on table after all. The reanimation protocols state all the casualties be todded up on a counter and then that many dice rolled at the end of the phase. If the removed from play issue was in fact an issue i think it would be here that it would mention any exeptions. As it doesnt then i can only come to the conclusion that there are NO exeptions.

    You never know – id heard say that all books since imperial guard were writen with the next rules set in mind – so maybe there is somthing come 6th?

    • Matt Kirk January 10, 2012 at 15:21 #

      That seems like a pretty solid argument under the current rules to me. Nice one. I think what also backs it up is the fact that under the new RP you remove the model anyway and leave a counter, therefore the model has still technically been removed as per the JotWW rule. Good call.

  6. fraggoff January 10, 2012 at 21:27 #

    geez guys the answer is in the rule’s name REANIMATION PROTOCOL you can’t reanimate nothing!!!

    • The Voice January 10, 2012 at 21:42 #

      You also cant have sentient robots, super soldiers in power armour, deamons, psykers, orks, garagnts,teleporting, mole mortars, 2 hearts, god emperors. I think climbing out of a hole is least our sence of disbelive has to suspend lol

      And besides when has gw rules ever bore any resebalance to what realistically should happen. Dont get me started on the whole “shadow of the warp doesnt work if your in a vehicle” fiasco 😀

  7. Devin Black January 13, 2012 at 21:29 #

    I called GW about this recently, and they said they a necron CAN NOT come back from Jaws unfornently.

    • The Voice January 16, 2012 at 10:24 #

      Ha, i used to do that job. Unfortuantly it means sweet fa as the studio who whire the faqs have no contact with the direct sales team to make that official (much to my chargin while i worked that) – what you go there was one persons opinion. Much like al the others here (mine included)

      • The Voice January 16, 2012 at 10:25 #

        My word. Once again i cant spell . Sorry people…..

  8. Matt kirk January 16, 2012 at 13:55 #

    Hey … FAQ just out. Thought the voice would want to know he can put two crypteks in a unit if they are from seperate royal courts. Also the scarab rules have said you can roll to penetrate after armour reduction which is cool and a unit with a veil can deepstrike onto the board. People should go read it. 🙂

  9. Matt Kirk January 16, 2012 at 14:10 #

    Although … and I only had chance to glance as I need to get back to my class … nothing about Jaws or removes from play that i could see.

  10. TJ January 27, 2012 at 11:12 #

    The main debate here is that removed from play and removed as a casualty are different things. Let’s turn it round a little and ask the question this way:
    You shoot and kill 9 of my 10 immortals with long fangs and I am thinking “ouch… but at least I get to try and stand back up”.
    Then you jaws the last immortal and he falls down a hole.
    Technically the wording for reanimation protocols says “if the last model from the unit is removed as a casualty remove your counters”. If removed from play is not removed as a casualty are my counters are still valid?
    We have been playing that they are the same thing and you get a roll…. but it does seem like one of those points that will be argued forever….

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